Have you heard about the new Position paper from the Academy of Nutrition & Dietetics?
It’s called: ‘Vegetarian Dietary Patterns for Adults: A Position Paper of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics’ and had a recent release date of February 07, 2025.
So you know that I had to discuss this with a fellow dietitian!
Check out the episode on YouTube below, or listen in on other podcast platforms. You can also read the transcript below.
Disclaimer: This article and podcast episode is just providing information and opinions. It is not nutrition or medical advice, nor is it a substitute for nutrition or medical advice. If you have questions about your health or diet, talk to a licensed professional. See our Disclaimers for more details.
About Our Guest: Masha Sardari
Masha Sardari, MS, RDN, LDN is a non-diet, weight-inclusive, and vegan dietitian who owns her own practice, called: ‘Fearlessly Nourished LLC’ in Jacksonville Florida.
Masha is helps folks find freedom from food and body image struggles, and blends evidence-based nutrition science with diverse food philosophies.
Our Conversation on the new Vegetarian Dietary Patterns Position Paper from the Academy of Nutrition & Dietetics
Here’s the transcript! from the ‘Plant Powered You Podcast’ episode :
Christine: Welcome to ‘the Plant Powered Podcast!’ This is the resource for all things vegan nutrition. I’m Christine-your host and vegan bestie, and I also happen to be a Dietitian. As a disclaimer, this podcast is just providing education and a bit of entertainment. If you have any questions about your health or diet, talk to your own healthcare provider.
Our full disclaimers will be linked to in the show notes. Now let’s get to the episode. Hello, Marsha, welcome to the podcast.
Masha: Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Christine: I am so excited to have you here as well because we are gonna be chatting about the new position paper by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics on vegetarian dietary patterns for adults.
So I couldn’t wait to chat about this with another fellow dietitian who identifies as vegan. Some background info about Masha is that she is a non diet, weight inclusive and vegan dietitian who owns her own practice called Fearlessly Nourished LLC, in Jacksonville, Florida. She helps folks find freedom from food and body image struggles and blends, evidence-based nutrition science with diverse food philosophies.
This is really exciting to have a fellow vegan dietitian chat all about this position paper that just got released. I wanna say it was like, in January of 2025 or something like that -around that time? So it’s pretty fresh. We’re gonna chat about some things that are really important to note about this paper.
But first I like to ask my guests what your vegan origin story is.
Masha: Definitely. So I’ve. Been interested on and off in a plant-based lifestyle throughout my life, but never made the full leap, or at least it was never sustainable or for much of a long period of time. And, I believe it was 2017 or 2018 – I was really fortunate to go on a study abroad trip in Italy, and I was really excited about the food culture. Of course, who can’t really say that they don’t want to eat the pasta or the pizza there. So I got to have a very intimate experience with the food culture there. Alot of our meals were cooked from local ingredients by local chefs, and it was just a very beautiful experience getting so close to the food.
Part of that was visiting dairy farms, and I know that the intention was to show us maybe the best version of a dairy farm that they had available. It was very small family owned. But I think it had an opposite effect on me than what maybe the intention was.
I felt that after meeting the animals, you know, looking them in the eyes and just seeing the life in them and just honoring who they are and learning more about the practices that they had… I just couldn’t sit with that and continue to eat animal products. It felt just internally wrong to do so, even though you know, the farm owners wanted to have the best practices possible and respect the animals as much as they could. Just the idea that the animal had to sacrifice their life for my enjoyment didn’t sit right with me anymore. So, that was the pivotal moment where I decided that I couldn’t any longer ignore what was going on.
And, I think deep down, I have known for a long time that I wasn’t a fan of eating animals. But I think as someone who grew up in the culture where that is the norm, you kind of brush that thought away and continue on because that, that is what’s been normalized.
Christine: Wow. So it’s like you finally found out how dairy cows -as some people call them, are used in the industry Huh? Through that experience, wow!
Masha: And I think what the difference really was is I have seen all the documentaries by then. I had very strong emotional reactions to the documentaries, especially Earthlings. That was a very tough one to watch.
But as time went on, I felt the pressure socially, to continue to return to eating animal products. And , that shift didn’t fully occur until I was confronted with it in real life. And having the emotional experience there just was so much more impactful that having that distance, I think I was able to justify continuing because I could just set it aside. But having that personal experience really made the shift.
Christine: That’s a good point. It’s even tough. You know – even though I identify as vegan, because it’s just… animal products are everywhere and we think of them as food, right? That’s just normal in our society.
And I can see how that can be really challenging to maintain it even if you are vegan, just living in this world. Right?
Masha: Right. Yeah. We, we do live in a non-vegan world, so it is something that we have to navigate and find the best practice that makes sense for us.
Christine: So how does this, your veganism kind of fall into your timeline with your dietetic work? Does that, was that before or after you were a dietitian?
Masha: That was during school when I was in my nutrition program. Very, very early on. I never thought that veganism was going to be a part of my life fully. So it was, it was something that gradually developed after that experience.
Christine: Okay. All right. Well, we certainly do need some more professionals who are invested in really knowing about vegan nutrition and the intricacies of, you know, nutrients that might be a bit lacking in people who just do a vegan diet without understanding all of that.
So it’s wonderful to have you in this space. With that being said. Just a little fun question I like to ask as well. If you could eat with any famous vegan like, uh, celebrity or a healthcare professional, et cetera, who would that be and what would you eat?
Masha: I think for me it would be Joaquin Phoenix.
I think he’s been quite a important figure in the vegan movement. He has done a lot of vegan activism, which is something that I haven’t had the opportunity to participate in very much. So I think he’s doing a lot of important work and raising awareness as a public figure, being as famous as he is and being able to talk about veganism openly.
Such a, a big impact – I think, on many, many people! A lot of people know about the stuff that is happening in animal agriculture because he’s brought attention to it. If it’s something that I would eat, I mean, having to choose one, one food is tough! I would say probably a classic for me would be some sort of vegan sushi.
That was something that I never thought was going to be flavorful or delicious if it’s considered vegan, but I found some really amazing places and it tends to have more flavor and experimentation that goes into it just because it’s not your traditional vegan food.
Christine: Yes, I love vegan sushi as well.
Excellent. So, Joaquin, if you’re out there, you know, Masha is up for some sushi with you!
Anyways, so those are just some fun questions I like to ask my guests. But I wanna turn now to talking about the position paper, the new one for vegetarian dietary patterns for adults.
So, like I mentioned this just came out. Let’s see – actually I see the date is February 7th, 2025. And so we’re gonna be chatting about, you know – not the whole thing, but just some things that I thought would be… that I want address, but first let’s just read the position statement. So it says:
” It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that, in adults, appropriately planned vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns can be nutritionally adequate and can offer long-term health benefits such as improving several health outcomes associated with cardiometabolic diseases. Vegetarian dietary patterns exclude meat, poultry, and seafood, and vegan dietary patterns exclude all foods of animal origin. Registered dietitian nutritionists (RDNs) and nutrition and dietetics technicians, registered (NDTRs) play a pivotal role in providing meal-planning strategies and evidence-based nutrition information to clients currently following vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns or who may benefit from and express interest in following vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. RDNs and NDTRs can work with their clients to create tailored, lifestyle-oriented, nutritionally balanced, and culturally suitable vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns that optimize health benefits while reducing concerns about nutrient inadequacies. This position was approved in January 2025 and will remain in effect until December 31, 2032.”
-Source: Vegetarian Dietary Patterns for Adults: A Position Paper of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
That was a lot! But I wanted to read that to just kind of preface this that, you know, dietitians are really important when it comes to vegetarian, so that includes vegan dietary patterns. And so it’s really important to, um, you know, if you have questions or concerns, um, if you can consult with a dietitian who is more well versed in vegan or vegetarian diets.
That would be helpful. And so, this paper actually is supposed to be geared towards healthcare professionals, so other dietitians, other healthcare professionals. And it’s important to note that this (position paper) is about adults that are not pregnant and not lactating. Maybe that will be a future position paper. But we’re, what we’re gonna talk about today is for adults who are not pregnant and not lactating.
I think that it’s important to emphasize that there are some concerns about nutrient inadequacies, and I think that the paper does a pretty good job of addressing those concerns. And that’s what I kind of wanted to talk about because we were just talking about this before the podcast.
Some folks think that there’s all these health benefits associated with vegan diets, and so maybe that’s why they choose to do them right? And maybe they’ll discover that, they don’t get those health benefits and maybe they feel more hungry because maybe they just assume all they can eat is lettuce? That’s an extreme example. But do you see that (sentiment) too in the vegan community?
Masha: I think a lot of people are enthusiastic about the shift and they’re excited, which is fantastic, and we want people to love the idea of going vegan. But I think in that maybe rushing into it without appropriately planning can put someone at risk for those nutritional deficiencies.
They’re pretty easy to fix if we are planning our diets appropriately, and especially for working with a dietitian who knows about those holes, as I say in, in the dietary pattern. And it can be a very sustainable long term. health beneficial or health supporting approach.
But as with any dietary pattern, we do have to put some thought into it so that we are making those choices from the start without having to undo the damage of maybe missing some nutrients.
If you are not planning things appropriately, any diet can put somebody at risk for deficiencies.
Christine: Yeah, like I mentioned, meeting with a dietitian will be very helpful. When we do talk about the health benefits though, the paper makes a point in saying that… Let me find out where it is here…The paper mentions something called the Plant-Based Diet Index, and so they found, in this paper they mentioned that, an emphasis on the intake of whole foods such as fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, and unsaturated oils.
(side note – this could Including the seed oil oils, that is a bit demonized!) So this is more of a healthy, plant-based dietary pattern, whereas unhealthful, plant-based diet index scores might emphasize refined grains, So these are, grains that are stripped of some phytochemicals, stripped of the fiber… sometimes they’ll add back in some nutrients, but not always.
And so these, generally have less health benefits. So it says it emphasizes that on a less healthy pattern that includes, sweetened beverages. So, what comes to mind is beverages that are mainly sugar, right? They don’t provide much nutrition, sweets, things like that. The, these are quite nutrient poor.
Important when we’re talking about a healthy dietary pattern, that it emphasizes those whole foods. And that doesn’t mean that you can’t have processed foods. And we’ll talk a bit more about that later. That processed doesn’t necessarily mean bad. But when we’re talking about health benefits, it is important to emphasize those, more whole foods, and that’s where the benefits are likely gonna come from. Because you’ll have people going on vegan diets and they can call it vegan, but they could mainly, you know, consume Oreos and… et cetera. So that’s technically vegan, but wouldn’t be the most healthful!
Masha: I think looking at it as a whole diet approach is really important and regardless of what dietary approach you are following, you know, the principles are similar across the board. The dietary guidelines for Americans do recommend similar shifts in eating as they do for the vegan and vegetarian diets. So it’s not unique to the plant-based approaches to emphasize whole grains and, fruits and vegetables and things like that.
Those are foundational good point for most, healthful diets as we know, including things like the Mediterranean diet, all those therapeutic style diets as well. So to say that that is somehow different for vegetarians and vegans isn’t necessarily the case.
Christine: That’s a really good point. Yes. They talk more about, about healthy diet patterns as you go on.
And you’re right. You know, even with a regular or an omnivore diet if you will, they still emphasize nutrient dense whole foods. Right? But I think that there is something unique about vegetarian patterns in that, um, they might include more plants. So, theoretically more fiber, more phytochemicals, those substances and plants that have health benefits-those are really fascinating to me.
So I think that’s wonderful that we can support healthy patterns in an omnivore and a vegetarian pattern.
Masha: I think one thing I want to note here is when someone is considering shifting to a plant-based lifestyle, it’s not necessarily about removing, it’s about replacing, right?
So, so we want to think about all those animal products that we are now not going to consume and find alternatives that will take that place so that we’ll be receiving the nutrients that we need and still eating adequately and nourishing our bodies so it doesn’t become a restrictive pattern, but becomes a nutrient dense, energy supportive, more holistic approach to eating that includes avoiding animal products, but not necessarily removing essential nutrients.
Christine: Yes. Oh, that’s such a good point. Because it’s not that you need animals to get those nutrients, right? We can get them in other places, which brings us to the next section that I wanted to talk about – it talks about micronutrients.
It kind of addresses those concerns. For example, they mentioned calcium here and a lot of us, at least in America, we, you know, we had our ‘three a day campaign’ from the… maybe it’s from the dairy industry? I’m not sure. For a while it almost seemed like you had to have dairy to meet your calcium needs, but that’s not necessarily true.
So the paper mentions other sources, where calcium can come from, such as calcium fortified soy milk, and other calcium fortified plant alternatives.
But you make a good point in that, you know, if somebody just replaces their dairy milk, for example, with a plant-based milk, they might not necessarily get, the protein or other things that come with dairy, right?
So what would you suggest?
Masha: I think the forgotten milk, what I would call it is, is soy milk, ultimately, because that is the closest alternative to dairy milk. It will still have your protein, it will have the essential amino acids that you need. It is most likely fortified. We do wanna check the labels just to make sure, just because there’s so many new products on the market all the time and they’re not all made equal, right?
Checking for fortification and choosing a soy-based milk, even if maybe that’s not the milk that we’re using in our coffee. Maybe it’s something that we tend to hide in our food more so putting it into smoothies or cooking your oatmeal in it.. finding ways to have that protein source, have the calcium benefit, but maybe not necessarily having to drink a full glass of milk, because I don’t really know many adults that are still drinking milk – as is or having a glass of some sort of dairy with their meals. So, it is natural for us to have that transition to having other calcium based dairy, dairy sources.
So, let’s replace those with dairy alternatives that are also as close as possible to giving us the nutrients that we need.
Christine: Yeah, that’s so important. And I do like soy milk too, ’cause- as opposed to like almond milk for example, it’s more creamy, I feel like. Yeah. So that’s another nice benefit.
Speaking of, yeah, what to look for. I have an article that I’ll link about what to look for on plant based milk labels.
Calcium fortified soy milk can be an option. It also talks in here about other foods like calcium set tofu. So check your tofu labels and you can see if it, there’s calcium fortified in there. Orange juice might be fortified. It does mention that bioavailability is influenced by phytate and oxalate intake – so that is important to note and that is probably why they emphasize the calcium fortified products so much because they likely have more bio available calcium. So that’s good that we address calcium and, you know, folks can get it without dairy product.
It also mentions a few other nutrients, some that I just wanna highlight on here. I won’t go through everything but vitamin B12. So, so important, right? If you are considering a vegan dietary pattern, and, that is because you cannot get that in plant-based sources.
Unfortunately there is some misinformation out online that you can, but you cannot, you cannot get it in plant-based sources.
So what you should be doing is talking with your doctor about supplementing for a vitamin B12 – a vitamin B12 supplement.
You can get it through fortified vitamin B12 vegan foods as well. But that takes quite a bit of work trying to plan that in your day and being consistent, et cetera.
The paper mentions that, a vitamin B12 supplement might, might be the easiest and most reliable way, to ensure adequate vitamin B12 status for vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns.
Masha: Yeah. Vitamin B12 deficiency is relatively common in the Western population as is.
Christine: Even as you get older, your ability to to absorb vitamin B12 goes down.
So, it’s something that a lot of us should be talking about with our doctors.
I know in the vegan community there is this desire sometimes for everything to be natural (if you wanna put it that way). Like- vegans might want vitamin B12 to be in a plant food because they think of it as more natural.
But we also have to remember that our animals are also fed vitamins and minerals. So, they are also being supplemented with vitamin B12 likely. So, you know… who’s, who’s to say it’s less natural, I guess, right?
Masha: Right. I think they do have to get it fortified in their feed or even get injections themselves, to have enough B12 circulating in their bodies. And then we end up eating the B12 as a byproduct of eating the animal products.
But why don’t we just skip that step and go ahead and just go straight to the supplement because we’re getting a supplemented form of it. By way of the meat, meat itself anyway,
Christine: so something for folks to consider. It really does need to be talked about ’cause like I mentioned, it’s not not found in plants for vegans. So we need to make sure we’re putting that on our talking point list with our doctor.
And then what else do we wanna highlight here? Tt mentions iron.
“A systematic review of presumably healthy adults from the general population indicated vegetarian, including vegan, dietary patterns may be associated with lower circulating ferritin concentrations when compared with nonvegetarian diets, but results were mixed and certainty of evidence was very low”
-Source: Vegetarian Dietary Patterns for Adults: A Position Paper of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
(side note- Circulating ferritin concentration are a measure of your iron stores.)
So it does have some suggestions though here, such as, you know, including a vitamin C rich source to enhance the absorption. So that could be something like oranges, right? Strawberries. These can have vitamin C.
Also reducing your foods and beverages that could reduce iron absorption like coffee. I believe there’s tannins in it that can help reduce iron absorption. So just something to be more cautious about.
Masha: Definitely. We just want to. Space, our iron sources away from coffee and tea and things like that that might block the absorption of iron.
And like you were saying, to increase the bioavailability of vitamin C source is a really helpful addition. So something like, I always think of like the spinach salad with, strawberries. So the strawberries are going to give you that vitamin C and the spinach will give you the iron and paired together, they work great to help you absorb, uh, the.
Christine: Yeah, good point is like making this visual for our clients and, and people we work with or the public, to see how they can incorporate these foods into their meal plans, which is a part of this paper too, right?
We need to make sure we’re being culturally sensitive and as dietitians and healthcare professionals working with folks on figuring out what works for them, within their dietary patterns or cultures, et cetera.
One more thing I wanted to point on about this paper. There’s so much in here you guys! We could be here for a while and talk about it, but something that I wanted to address- the concerns that a lot of people have about vegan dietary patterns…. so one of them is about the availability of, plant-based processed products that are on the market.
So I’m talking things like plant-based milk, plant-based mock meats, if you will… And so have you heard concerns from maybe your clients or folks you know about: are these really healthy?
Masha: Right? Definitely. I think there’s debate on whether replacing animal products with those meat alternatives.
We do know that meat alternatives can be a really great source of the key nutrients that we have talked about so far. Especially things like protein, B vitamins those can be such an easy way to get those nutrients without having to, you know, cook up a whole meal. It’s convenient. It’s readily available.
I think it also makes plant-based diets a lot more accessible, because we’re able to replace what are traditionally – animal products in dishes with alternatives that texturally and flavor fully replace those ingredients making it a lot easier to have a meal that looks very similar to like, let’s say a, a pasta with meat sauce.
We can now make it with Beyond or Impossible meat and it will look very similar, tastes very similar. So I think accessibility is a really, really important aspect of having, meat replacements that are available on the market and making it easier for so many more people.
I think the other question. Is what is processed? We don’t have a universal definition for this, and it seems that, the studies don’t really show consistency between what products are labeled as processed and direct health effects. So things like dairy alternatives or like plant-based milks don’t seem to have negative effects, but they are technically processed, right?
And processing can actually be something that allows us to access nutrients easier than the less processed form. So I think having more of a nuanced idea of what processing means and looking at your total dietary pattern, right? What place. Is that meat replacement taking in your meal plan?
Or, what benefits are you getting from that? Or how can you adjust other areas of your eating to support the fact that you are relying maybe pretty significantly on, meat replacements.
Christine: That’s a good point. Yeah. I love that. There’s, so many different kinds of processed foods out there, and I think that when we talk about the health concerns of processed foods, we’re thinking about, I heard another healthcare professional put it in a nice way…
They, they mentioned a term like ‘ultra processed and nutrient poor.’ So when I think about that in that term, I think about like, gummy candy maybe, or like chips, you know – it’s very processed, but, it doesn’t provide a lot in, helping us meet those essential nutrients that we need.
So when we think about things like plant-based meats, um, sure it might have. Like more sodium, for example. And, and we don’t wanna get too, too much sodium in our diet, but we still do need sodium. Sso to your point, maybe if we do wanna include that, we need to think about including other foods that might be a bit lower in sodium for that meal, for example, or dietary pattern.
The plant-based meats can provide things like protein, like you mentioned. Sometimes they’re fortified with B vitamins – you have to look at the label, but we can be able to fit them into our meal pattern. We might need to make some tweaks, if it is a very high sodium meal, for example, but, they can fit and they are helpful I think.
So it’s important for us not to just be focused in on, on the one food and think about our whole pattern. and we do find that they can fit if we look at it like that. And I think this, this position paper aligns with that view as well.
“o help address these challenges, RDNs and NDTRs can provide their clients with a balanced perspective on the pros and cons of incorporating plant-based alternatives, encourage moderation in consumption and label reading for nutrient information, and act as advocates for healthier versions of processed foods.”
-Source: Vegetarian Dietary Patterns for Adults: A Position Paper of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
So that’s another good point here. Um, I think it’s. Is it Beyond Meat? They came out with…so they used to make their plant-based meats with coconut oil which has more saturated fats, so that has been associated with heart disease.
But now they have an option that’s made with avocado oil! So they still have options with coconut oil but they also have options with avocado oil which is a less saturated fat oil. We can advocate for that as professionals.
Masha: Definitely, and I don’t think I’ve noticed a difference really between texture, flavor seemed pretty similar. I think there’s also a lot of hope in, the future and, and how food science is developing and we’re finding ways to make things taste good, but maybe not incorporate as many nutrients that we are more worried about.
I think that there’s a lot to hope for the future of plant-based alternatives I think is very bright and I’m hopeful to see what comes to the market because I’ve already seen so much variety and so many different products that cater to different individuals that maybe are aware of allergens or aware of health concerns.
So I think that’s only going to improve with time. I think as consumers we have a say on whether that will happen by, purchasing these products and incorporating them into our dietary patterns, showing demand and encouraging these companies to make advancements.
Christine: That’s a good point to make.
We all play a role and so this is just a message for the healthcare professionals out there to, you know, let’s maybe advocate for us to have options, right? For our vegan and vegetarian clients because there is that interest for folks to switch more to the plant-based meats, if you wanna call them that, but we can advocate for healthier options.
But at the same time as healthcare professionals, we can also talk about how to incorporate them, right? So that we can enjoy them and not be so fearful of them, especially when we have a very healthy dietary pattern as a whole that’s nutrient dense. So, let’s find ways to help our clients.
Masha: Definitely.
Christine: Well, awesome! I think that we covered a lot. We talked about a lot of things in this episode about the position paper. If you guys wanna check it out, I will leave it in the description below. And then as we start to close out here, I just wanted to ask Masha if she wanted to share about the services that she provides for folks!
Masha: Yeah, definitely. So I am, as you mentioned earlier, a anti-diet dietitian. So I work on helping individuals heal their relationship with food. Look at it more from the big picture perspective as we mentioned in this episode. Really not fixating on individual ingredients or individual foods and looking at how food can be supportive for us and how we can have a healthy relationship with our food.
So I do provide one-on-one counseling, whether you are vegan or not. I provide a judgment free space and if that’s something that is important for you then I can be, that voice that supports you in either transitioning to a plant-based diet or looking at your overall pattern and improving upon it.
But if you are not vegan and you are struggling with your relationship with food, I’m here to help. No one has to be doing this alone.
Christine: Especially in this age, with so much information on social media, it’s so hard to, to, uh, understand what are the things I should be paying attention to. So, um, I think that’s awesome that you can provide that space for them to learn about nutrition in a non fearful way ’cause it can be intimidating out there.
Masha: Definitely. I think there’s a lot of fear mongering and vilifying of food. And as we talked in this episode, we can look at the information in a more neutral manner and take what is helpful and leave what isn’t and really use our minds to figure out how do we find the most supportive meal pattern for ourselves without getting too lost in the details.
Christine: I think this is so needed in our field because we have to remember, even though we’re dietitians and we focus a lot on nutrition, health is more than that, isn’t it? It’s about your mental health and your physical health and your nutrition of course, and how you manage stress and all these things.
So we want to have more of a holistic approach and so if you have. Fears around eating make some time to get help for that too.
Well, is there anything else you wanted to share?
Masha: If anyone is interested in working with me, I am offering a discount on the first session. So just mention that you heard about me through this podcast and I can offer that discount to you.
Christine: Awesome. Well we will put that in the show notes as well along with your Instagram handle, right? It’s @fearlesslynourished I believe.
And your website (Masha’s website), we’ll put that there. So guys, head to that and thank you so much for being on our show today.
Masha: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation and I hope that we continue to chat in the future.
Christine: If you enjoyed this episode, you should totally check out my Vegan for Beginners guide, which you can find over in the description of this episode below. Please give this episode a five star review if you enjoyed it. I’ll see you next time. Bye!
If you enjoyed this conversation, and want to hear more leave a comment and let me know what you’d you want to hear next.
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